Dunning-Kruger effect條curve
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黒咲芽亜
2023-9-28 13:33:57
成日見啲人攞下面呢條curve嚟代表DK effect
:^(
但實際上嘅份paper所形容嘅DK effect同條curve係兩回事
:^(
Perceived logical reasoning ability and test performance as a function of actual test performance, taken from
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12688660_Unskilled_and_Unaware_of_It_How_Difficulties_in_Recognizing_One%27s_Own_Incompetence_Lead_to_Inflated_Self-Assessments
其實條curve係喺邊度嚟,又點解會傳得咁廣?
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IceHeart
2023-10-23 13:16:06
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IceHeart
2023-10-23 13:19:25
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黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 14:15:47
呢個都係一個問題,psychology嘅實驗成日都被質疑好難replicate
不過我冇咩詳細睇過有關呢方面嘅嘢
我個主要疑問係,成日喺連登同埋外國forums上面見到第一幅圖條curve,suggest冇能力者嘅自信 > 有能力者
但睇返篇文(唔理篇文嘅conclusion係咪solid先),會發現其實有能力者嘅「自信」其實 > 冇能力者
只不過佢哋會underestimate自己,而冇能力者會overestimate自己
所以好奇條curve喺邊度彈出嚟
黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 14:17:51
至於replicability問題,今日晏啲可以搵搵有冇人試過重做呢個實驗
不過我psychology嘅知識貧瘠,可能需要連登巴打絲打提點一下
IceHeart
2023-10-23 14:39:43
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IceHeart
2023-10-23 14:42:21
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IceHeart
2023-10-23 15:08:27
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黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 15:21:03
true
我之前睇咗下個Many Labs Replication Project,發現psy嘅replication crisis真係好嚴重
不過dk effect好似都冇咩特別嘅real world application,啲人都係當meme噉spread,又少咗incentive去replicate
btw
真係見有人re-evaluate過DK effect,話係artefact
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289620300271
又有人再evaluate個re-evulation,話有effect,但個effect好細
:^(
:^(
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289622000988?via%3Dihub
唔想用手機睇文,遲啲先睇
黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 15:24:34
re-evaluation
:^(
今日不停打錯字
黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 15:31:23
係,初學者overestimate自己呢個現象喺網上成日見,可能啲人多機會用,好易廣傳
有個effect攞出嚟講又好似頭頭是道噉
但最好奇係幅graph係邊條友整出嚟,重上埋wiki
:^(
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明治朱古力
2023-10-23 22:18:46
confidence= perceived score - actual score?
會得到mt. stupid 到 plateau
0 knowledge 到 mt. stupid 就求奇拉直線上
幅圖出現係因為一幅圖一條線易解釋啲掛
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?
黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 22:22:32
去唔到plateau
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top嗰班人係underestimate自己,perceived score - actual score係negative
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明治朱古力
2023-10-23 22:31:07
咁就應該係 y(confidence) = x + (perceived score - actual score)
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黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 22:34:12
唔係好明
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confidence = competence + perceived ability - actual ability?
黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 22:35:34
定你意思x係個constant term,逼佢上positive
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明治朱古力
2023-10-23 22:51:34
x = y
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confidence (y, 0-100) = competence (x, 0-100) + (perceived score - actual score)
佢應該撈埋咗好幾樣想講嘅野
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黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 22:57:51
competence唔係practically equivalent to actual score咩
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唔係要點理解
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明治朱古力
2023-10-23 23:14:02
咁幅圖就係plot perceived score against actual score
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我個諗法係
幅圖base on confidence = competence
with an arbitrary value 0-100/1000 etc.
然後用(perceived score - actual score)表達overconfident/underconfident
sorry for the poor presentation
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黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 23:33:13
:^(
睇下我有冇理解錯你講咩
如果真係,個plot都幾複雜
正常人會諗到用x = y做base咩
:^(
另外如果係噉,個slope of enlightenment應該要打橫 / less steep than plateau of sustainability
plateau of sustainability應該要follow x=y,變slope先make sense
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明治朱古力
2023-10-23 23:45:26
大概係咁
呢啲圖唔洗太講究啦我諗
表達到
1. overconfident
2. back to normal (despair)
3. correctly know yourself (slope of enlighten)
4. underconfident (plateau)
用返D-K 原本幅圖難睇啲
:^(
再者咁樣plot 個arbitrary value 細啲幅圖出嚟會juicy 啲
:^(
mt. stupid 可以變 mt. stupid Everest
:^(
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黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 23:49:05
講得通
:^(
thx ching
黒咲芽亜
2023-10-23 23:51:47
睇過啲質疑嘅文,好多都focus on statistical analyses嘅artefacts
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咩regression toward the mean我真心識條撚
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冇能力,睇下有冇其他人望下講下
彈頭丁丁
2023-10-24 22:15:49
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黒咲芽亜
2023-10-24 22:23:00
當然條curve本身唔係statistically derived
但有人質疑個effect本身(which the curve attempts to describe)係statistical artefact
btw here's a stackexchange page discussing the same topic
https://psychology.stackexchange.com/questions/17825/what-is-the-primary-source-of-the-mount-stupid-graphic
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但實際上嘅份paper所形容嘅DK effect同條curve係兩回事
Perceived logical reasoning ability and test performance as a function of actual test performance, taken from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/12688660_Unskilled_and_Unaware_of_It_How_Difficulties_in_Recognizing_One%27s_Own_Incompetence_Lead_to_Inflated_Self-Assessments
其實條curve係喺邊度嚟,又點解會傳得咁廣?